User talk:Azorrez/Archive 3

Apology
Azorrez, I'd like to apologize for all the offensive and hurtful comments I made to you in our previous conversations. I was wrong to call you a loser. Do you have an email that we may discuss things? 02:48, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Oh sorry, forgot about this message. Anyway, the thing I need to ask you is a more private matter that can't be on a public site. Can you reopen the email? 00:53, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

No sorry. I'll send you it tomorrow. 03:33, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Are you trying to test MY patience? I sent you the message like a few days ago. 22:19, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Azorrez, you checking your email? 23:55, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Jobs Continued
Next time please don't archive on going talking, looks like a sign that your done.

Actually it wasn't, I don't like recruiting cause of all the questions I have to repeatedly answer, hence why I don't care if I end up paying for the Department of Recruiting, and the large structure was created for the event that there's a large number of members. Already the Ministry of Industry has been fully structured by the new minister, it maybe overkill for a clan of The Empire's size, but I'm looking at the long term.

Also your registered on the clan's forums, did you intend to do something there? Also which clan do you hail from so I can add it to the profile field.

EmperorHester 14:18, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

_______ EmperorHester 02:53, December 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Well it's like I stated "looks like a sign that your done." from a certain point of view. I look at almost all foreign (None Empire members) as a diplomatic talk.
 * 2) What I'm asking is if you'd be interested in doing a part-time job in recruiting, Clan:The Empire/Central Government? Pays good if you recruit people into The Empire.
 * 3) Special Clan Forums? you mean http://w11.zetaboards.com/Runescape_The_Empire/index/ ? I wouldn't really call it that but yeah I mean those forums.
 * 4) If your a diplomat does that mean your looking for an alliance with The Empire?
 * 5) Well past experience has shown that if you take a large number of people and then overhaul into a new structure for the people it's even more confusing as everyone's lost, with it done now people can get a better sense cause they aren't used to the old system in which they were already used too.
 * 6) The clan constitution is under review at the moment, and all constitutions are confusing they're writen to have different interpretations, just look at the United States' Constitution and how it's written, prime example.
 * 7) And thanks, I prefer a monarchy style so long as its a fair person sitting on the throne, even in real life it would be more practicle, however most cases have shown that people abuse their power.

________
 * 1) No... it was a request, note the word "please" if it was a command i wouldn't have used it.
 * 2) For what purpose?
 * Oh, have a link to the Jagex-run clan initiative? There should be a link to it.
 * 1) Alright
 * 2) I could but I'm looking for effieciency and doing it now rather then later looks better.
 * 3) Then how is The Empire's confusing?
 * 4) Well there in lies the hidden power of the Constitution, public opinion, if I did something like edit the constitution to allow me to force you to pay me all your gold coins people would just leave the clan.
 * 5) Could you point out an example of " the monarch still has control in the places where the constitution says it doesn't  ." ?
 * 6)  By the constituion the Heir would go to the next highest ranking official should i step down, at this moment, I know I still have yet to select a heir. 
 * 7)  What does it matter? And I do, the Grand Vizer, head of the Central Government. Same role as Prime Minister, except with a facier/different name. 

EmperorHester 04:23, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

_________________________________________________  No just a request. 

 For what investigation? 

 Why not? </li></li></li></li></li></li>

 It is moulded to what people want, I ask what branch they wish to join, if they say the Ministry of Industry I ask with department they can join any of the ones they like. I'd even accept none and they'd just be a member. Members can also make suggestions if they want, to be honest there are few rules (the current laws of the clan are being reworked as part of my clan wiki update). How are my ideals unique? </li></li></li></li></li></li>

Again, working on a clan wiki update, which extends to the constitution since I don't have it in the clan's Archives.</li></li></li></li></li></li>

I don't have unlimited power, the only time i have unlimited power is when it's granted to me by a vote to suspend the constitution, not to mention the amendments, which I'm adding more.</li></li></li></li></li></li>

It does http://runescapeclans.wikia.com/wiki/Clan:The_Empire/Constitution#Article_VIII-_Succession_of_the_Throne it goes from the highest senior rank down, so if i stepped down or was impeached it would fall to my Minister of Industry gman050. And it only applies to those ranks present, since there's no Grand Vizer, it would fall to the Grand Moff in the World Government, no Grand Moff then Minister of Industry and so on. </li></li></li></li></li></li>

And no, the next highest official would be the Executor, or the heir apparent (once the position is filled). Then after that would be Viceroy, THEN Grand Vizer.</li></li></li></li></li></li>

Again, clan wiki update which includes the constitution it falls under the Grand Vizer.</li><p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: normal;">EmperorHester 05:13, December 26, 2011 (UTC) </li> <p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: normal;">_______________________________________ </li> </li> </li> </li>

Sounds about right for diplomats.</li></li></li></li></li>

Then why bring it up if it's Jadex invite only and your not Jadex?</li></li></li></li></li>

Believe it or not, there was a point in time in the first few months in which that happend, over the months following it began turning into the system you see today and if you've seen the Ministry of Industry's page in the wiki, you'll see that my current minister liked it. Those kind of people maybe hard to come by, but they are out there. And there are ways for members to amend the clan constitution, I'll listen to what ever the members will suggest if I agree I'll give up that power to them or grant them that right, if I don't I'll explain if they truely believe in what they're proposing they have to follow the steps under Article XI section 2. And I'm not quick to put things down.</li></li></li></li></li>

No... the Amendments I can't touch so anyone can say what they want, believe what they want and so on from the First ammendment alone. And I can't just punish someone however I want, all members must have a trial with a jury as for Amendments 3,4,5. I do have limits.</li></li></li></li></li>

Why are you so pursistant with the Head of State?! And the heir?</li></li></li></li></li>

With runescape you can't have a baby to be the heir, so one has to be selected!</li><p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: normal;">EmperorHester 15:57, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

</li> _____________________________________________________

1.) And all your saying is that i'm a dictator because I don't have a head of state like a true Monarchy?

2.) Yet time and time again people sign it and agree with it, and more and more I give up power -.-

3.) Yet in Runescape I can't have an heir born to the throne! Hence why they're selected.

4.) They're selected based on their actions, if someone is a tyrant they're not on my list to be selected to be the heir apparent, yes people can pretend to be something they're not but they can't do it forever.

EmperorHester 01:06, December 27, 2011 (UTC) </li> _____________________________________________________

No, it's The Empire's constitution, it's what defines the government of the clan.

Or is the head of state required before YOU'LL consider it a Monarchy?

Yet gman050 joined, he said he would like to do trading, so I set him up in the Ministry of Industry in the Trading Department, it doesn't need 400 members to start thinking like this.

Cause he's an ally? And as he pointed out that I wouldn't have, our systems work for US, gman050 got it the second he read everything he wanted to know about the Ministry of Industry, he rewrote it with what he had avalible to him and he was rewarded with being the new Minister of Industry. EmperorHester 17:28, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

</li> ______________________________

Understand what?

I do know it, and he's pointed out things I didn't think of.

And that's not my government, that's the Triumvirate's, I don't strive for perfection just efficency.

What complications?

EmperorHester 02:58, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

</li> Eh, overviewing the first 2 articles of my clan's new constitution i'm writing, more like Constitutional Authoritarian Monarchy, the Grand Vizer would be Head of Government, while Emperor/Empress remains head of state however I'm keeping the fact that my bank inventory in game is apart of the clan's treasury, all 63 million of it. EmperorHester 20:07, January 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Azorrez look, the Emperor isn't a dictator at all, he's a leader in his clan. He doesn't run it completely but he does have a lot of power. Just because someone's not an absolute monarch doesn't mean they're a dictator. Both the Empire and the Triumvirate have unique and complex systems of government, it's good to question them but you shouldn't just call us out on it when you don't necessarily understand all of it. If you read our Constitutions and writings of our founders and our laws then maybe it makes more sense. It's hard for both the Emperor and I to explain how everything works in a really detailed way because we're both pretty busy people what with helping run clan/unions. That's my two cents. Arnold Ogamon  <span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">Talk __<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">UT  20:14, December 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Emperor asked if I'd join in. I did try to tell you, you just wouldn't take my advice and read our Constitution. The Constitution explains it better than I ever could. I'm here to just help explain, I'm not trying to bring the Triumvirate up but since the Emperor and I are friends and the Triumvirate is the Empires ally, I wanted to help out in explaining. Arnold Ogamon  <span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">Talk __<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">UT  00:47, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * There isn't anything wrong with either of our systems. Our systems work well for us, that's all that matters. We're not pushing them on anyone, we're just using our system and going about our own business. I just said I know not everything is about the Triumvirate, when you keep saying that you make it all about the Triumvirate so please stop. I was talking about the Triumvirate's Constitution mostly, it's hard to understand how another society functions until you know about their government or live and take part in it. That's how things usually go. You learn from experience, not from opinions. Arnold Ogamon  <span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">Talk __<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">UT  07:03, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you don't have time for minor arguments why are we all doing this? How about we all drop it and go on with or lives? Arnold Ogamon  <span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">Talk __<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">UT  00:36, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure but it's been going on for a while and I'm pretty sure we all have better things to do. Arnold Ogamon  <span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">Talk __<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">UT  18:04, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Cont.
EmperorHester 02:49, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I don't like bureaucracy, I learned this from the United States of Runescape shortly before it's collapse, we couldn't get anything done cause of Senators who were to busy worried about their own power within the clan to care about what was happening TO the clan. That's how The Empire was formed, I was president in that clan and several saw it necessary to reorganize, though those people went in-active.
 * Make up your mind lol, I went with Monarch before but you pointed out without a Prime Minister it's not a monarchy.
 * Well there are several Vizers in The Empire, one for RADE, one for the future Department of Diplomacy, Improvements and Gaming Commission. The title for Grand Vizer is to show that s/he is higher than the others.
 * More points that are meaningless, if they're the same then why are there two names for the same thing?
 * Well no one else want's to pay out of pocket for anything, i.e taxes, so why tell clan members they have to pay taxes when I'm already doing that? They can donate if they want, but I'm not forcing people to pay taxes, that's another way to loose clan members.
 * And weather or not it was scammed from my account is too, irrelevant. He still took 27.5 million GP, even if it was from another person in the clan it would rise just the same and the money would go to who ever it belonged too.

_______________________________________ EmperorHester 08:41, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you refer to the actual United States, I hate it but deal with it, beats having a tyrant in power killing people off.
 * That... doesn't make much sence, you used a double negative.
 * Yes I can, all governments are different. (Thanks i wouldn't have caught the spelling error)
 * Well there isn't an actual way to store the money elsewhere and know the clan will get the money back, and I pay for the Department of Recruiting when someone recruits someone, I pay salaries for part-time job holders depending on the job and the salary.
 * Yes I could charge him with embezzlement, but not many people would get what embezzlement is. Hence the use of scamming and not the actual term.

________________________________________ EmperorHester 21:16, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * That clan no longer exists, it collapsed cause of too many problems, mainly the bureacracy of everything taking too much time to get done.
 * But both do cancel each other out.
 * It's just a title and rank within the Central Government, your not promoted based on your wealth in The Empire, your promoted based on your contributions. Cptn Aubrey is the Grand Vizier because he's done ALOT for the clan and last i heard he has less then 2 million GP to his name. And again, it's The Empire's government, our positions and titles can be what we want.
 * And yes he did, it is set up so that my account is the clan's budget and finances. I have a high activity time around the computer programing websites so i see an email for an expense I log in and pay that expense should it be for the clan, like salaries for the Department of Recruiting.
 * Tell me, why do you insist on questioning everything about people's factions? And how did that start from simply asking about jobs offered?!

_____________________________________________ EmperorHester 02:26, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't create that bureaucracy, I joined the clan long after it was already established, not to mention i only brought things that were worth meaning to the floor and didn't filibuster anything.
 * again, in real life; in concept form it's a good idea, in actual practice its not.
 * I'm not explaining it to you, look up double negative on google or something.
 * An oligarchy form of government is that the rulers are those who have the most money.
 * Pretty much.
 * "Read our messages then" What does that mean?

____________________________________________________
 * We did, it's now The Empire.
 * Well nine times out of ten, I'm pretty sure the monarchy would be a tyrant. And I said a Monarchy would be good if it has a good leader.
 * Then find another meaning for Oligarchy.
 * I'm now getting tired of this, clearly you'll bash anything that doesn't make sense to you so please leave me alone. EmperorHester 17:06, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

RE:
I don't know who you're refering to, but I am a recruit in the clan named Silent Knight. Hopefully that will clear things up. U have toes 21:09, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

are these arguments still going on??? ahahaha lol, remember the deal you and ben had...

10:58, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

>:) Uhnul 21:17, February 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't worry, this isn't the real Uhnul. Arnold Ogamon  <span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">Talk __<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-size:75%; font-family:Parchment arial sans-serif; vertical-align:1px;">UT  22:28, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Apologies
My apologies, this was not the real "Uhnul" - this was a hoax. Please continue with your business, the account has been banned and deleted. 19:49, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

<span style="font-size:18.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Runescape Options
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Hello Azorrez, I am gman from The Empire, though I come here not as a representative of my ministry but as the Chairman of the Board of Directors of the newly created Imperial Bank. Until recently, the vision of the Bank has been one of savings accounts and interest paid to customers, but it being college season once again, my economics class has inspired me to dream a little larger than just flipping random items for loads of profit and sharing it as interest. No, now I have an idea to create an entire secondary market for Runescape, one that can revive the old and crazy days in Varrock’s west bank. The gateway to this new, fun and exciting market is player-created and traded securities like the ones created on paper on Wall Street: futures and options, or the agreement between two parties to purchase or sell any particular item for any particular price in the future.

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Of course, these contracts cannot be controlled or regulated by Jagex or the GE, and as such the entire market will come down to an honors system, which is precisely why this must begin with established clans whose members are reputable and trustworthy. Some random player might just walk out on a deal that would cost him 400,000gp, but for members of a clan, who can be held accountable, who have already invested so much time and effort for the clan, the idea of walking away from such an insubstantial loss would be ridiculous. He would just shake his head and either bow out of the market, or ideally, jump right back in and try again. If this project will start anywhere, it must be with clans.

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">I come to you for your expertise and experience in the field of Diplomacy and talks with other clans, to help, or at least point me in the direction of a clan or group that might entertain the idea of starting a completely new, isolated, fun and legal market to expand the Runescape experience, and hopefully some people’s bank accounts.

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">I would be happy to discuss this matter as much as you have interest in it.

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Thank you for your time.

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Sincerely,

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Gman050 09:57, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal">Great. I'll have a business plan to send in just a few days.

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal">Gman050 16:09, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal">you can reach me at empire.gman@gmail.com

<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:normal">150.250.133.214 09:42, February 16, 2012 (UTC)