User talk:Triumvirate Department of State/Archive 1

Um how bout no. 19:07, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Violations & I'm Still Here
This wiki is not a Triumvirate play ground, and it's policies do not over rule this wikia's policies. Management is still here, and awake. I demand this account be revoked of all of it's admin privillages on the grounds that there was not a community conensus, and this action has been done with complete disregard to the wikia community.

''Wikis are not based on any form of hierarchy. Administrators and bureaucrats are trusted members of the wiki community who are recognized for reliable edits and fairness in dealing with discussions or arguments. This does not give them authority over other players in overruling decisions; all major decisions of this kind must be made by the community, and not by an individual. Editors should also not claim "(Admin name here) said that we shouldn't do this, so we shouldn't" if there isn't already a clear rule or policy on this. Don't actively ignore it either, though; discuss it. Discussion is a major part of wikis. ''

No one and I mean no one is allowed to make a policy change on this scale over night without even attempting to reach out to any admins, or any other part of the community. This account has done nothing for this wiki, and has no right to have these powers under any regard. 19:36, September 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * This is the Universal Triumvirate Department of State. Management is clearly lacking, and under permission from existing bureaucrats and our own leadership, this Department is stepping in. We are not taking "control" of any kind. We are simply taking this in as our protectee and with months of planning. I am a bureaucrat here. I will be protecting this wiki from further vandalism and mismanagement. No one has more experience or knowledge than I do in this regard, and with regard to assets, we clearly hold the advantage. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 20:12, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Prove it (what's even vandalized at the moment)? Not to mention you didn't even use your talk page correctly, the reply should have been on my talk page. This is disgraceful. 20:35, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Also you cannot say "I'm the B'Crat here" that doesn't mean anything on this wiki. I suggest you read a policy or two about this wiki before you start acting like you know it RuneScape_Clans_Wiki:All_editors_are_equal. 20:37, September 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * There have been multiple incidents where vandalism failed to be dealt with for days on end. The Department of State is more familiar with this wiki than almost anyone out there. With a lack in management, we stepped in. That's the end of the story. I hope we can work together here, because if so, I look forward to it. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 20:47, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Dear sir(s), I have no personal problems with you, and I appolgoize if I come off that way. But, the manor of which you have been injected into this wiki is at best disgusting. 20:57, September 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have been with this wiki for a very long time, and before me my predecessor, and there are literally dozens of resources and several people behind me to help manage this wiki. I want to work together with you, I insist on it in fact. We need to do something about stopping vandalism, dealing with vandalism, and creating permanent solutions rather than letting the wiki deteriorate. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 21:01, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Nah, I'm just going to done here I think... I've been blessed with a wonderful girlfriend, I've got numerous open source and closed source programming projects to work on, my grandmother has cancer, and I'm in college. That's enough on my plate for me. That said, if I'm needed for something... Just ask I suppose... Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. 00:13, September 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Best of luck to you then, perhaps we'll meet again. No harm done and farewell. The wiki is in good hands. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 00:55, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Urgent
To save me having several talkpages discussions I'm putting my comments and replies to yourself, zerouh, dark and any other admins, and any users wishing to give their opinions here. This is not a place to argue, be civil. Please post all replies here and read the whole section before commenting. Understand that I may not have every fact correct as I do not have time to read every post on every talk page and to analyse every edit made.

I realise I have not been active very much at all this year, as with Dark I have real life things to do. I do not want to start on a bad note, and I don't want to bring in immediate reservations on you but as a b'crat it is a somewhat responsibility that I tell you of the following:
 * 1) You have been given b'crat rights without any consolidation with any other community members
 * 2) You have next to no contributions with this wiki
 * 3) You have not contacted myself or dark directly in the slightest
 * 4) You have edited vital features of the wiki without consent from community or without knowing the policies surrounding those features.
 * 5) Overall, yourself and Zerouh have broken several policies

In any case of a fully active wiki Zerouh and yourself would be temporarily stripped of your rights and had a open discussion as to the future of the accounts would be held. In my opinion sysop rights have been misused which is supposed to result in an immediate 1 week block. Read the last paragraph as to why I am holding back.

Zerouh, you have not contacted me until now where you obviously feel it's too late? As far as I knew you did not care for this wiki, let alone feel it was in your right to break policies to create a short-term fix? If you had asked for help to manage this wiki I would have stepped up. At this time I am utterly ashamed to see you abusing your powers. For someone that for so long has been traveling dead along wiki policy, to be (now it seems act) so diplomatic, to go out on a limb like this is just shocking. It is in your favour that I do not have time within the next week to deal with this policy mess. I therefore ask Zerouh: I want to see a a full explanation of your actions, your reasoning and how you are going to monitor this b'crat's actions over the next eight weeks. I do not want to see you getting personal or emotional in your response, strictly b'crat. I'm sorry to be harsh but if you are not going to follow policy, I will.

Triumvirate, I'm sorry for the mess you have landed yourself in. I want you to write reasoning as to why you feel you should now keep your b'crat rights, what you are going to do in the short and long term of this wiki and I want you to link me to all the policies that you have read to show your understanding of what you need to uphold (better then what Zerouh has displayed in the past week) as a b'crat on any wiki. Please give all details as to your situation and your prior knowledge as you have mentioned before.

As I am taking responsibility for the lack of management over the past year I do not feel the need to take any immediate action. I understand what you are both trying to do and why you are doing it, I am just not happy with how it has been handled initially and how you are treating another user when they confront you (Zerouh); namely you have proven yourself a hypocrite. If you feel I am being unfair please feel free to share your opinions on the matter. I am going to message other admins to share comments. Triumvirate, you are to follow policies strictly as a normal user until this has reached a conclusion please. I am truly sorry for having to go through all this - It's the last thing I needed in the middle of my final exams, so please respond sensibly and understand I'm only following this wiki's policy. Sorry for the long read & Thank you in advance, 13:33, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Comments
Please comment under this heading.
 * These are the current statistics for the wiki, for future reference. 13:41, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why a nomination was not made Here. I can understand an argument that the wiki is inactive, but obviously I could have responded, as could most of the other admins. We may not spend hours contributing content daily, but we still watch... and a message on a talk page grants almost immediate response. This is a blatant disregard of wiki policy, and should be reversed immediately. I am also unclear why they were not made admin, being granted the extra access which simply is not needed. I won't even begin to comment on the relationship of the bureaucrat with the new person, as that opens another can of worms... 14:33, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe I may have been to soft in my last response. If this user is not returned to normal account status within 24 hours of my post, I will be taking this directly to wikia to have the policies of this wiki enforced and have both accounts in dispute placed in a block. 24 hours. 14:39, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * To my credit, there was no one on this wiki, every admin was listed as "inactive" very very clearly. I was appointed a bureaucrat because we are the only ones with the knowledge of wiki editing, the knowledge of this community, and the assets to keep this wiki defended and protected. There is no harm done, and I agree that Excel should be re-admined very soon, I will do it myself if necessary. Zerouh, being the only active bureaucrat saw it was necessary to appoint a good new one with years of experience and background.


 * This wiki has collapsed in the past two years, and you need new action. Don't criticize people willing to take action, you all weren't active and other people were. It's not difficult to see why you weren't included in the decision, no one was here, truly. It wasn't an offense to you, it was just that we had to take action and step in when there was no visible presence here. Other people demanded leadership. The wiki community stands behind this as well, you can speak to multiple wiki members all in support. There is no relationship between Zerouh and myself, we've actually never personally met considering he left my Union two years ago. I am here under authority from Major Executive Maine and I got permission to be appointed bureaucrat here because I displayed the skill and knowledge necessary.


 * You all don't even need to be here arguing, do you really care anymore? This wiki hasn't seen any of you in months, but it's been watched for four years by me, by the Department of State. I am here to take the load off of all of your hands, and I welcome working with any of you who are truly interested in being an active participant here.


 * Zerouh stepped in not in violation of policy, because Zerouh WAS policy. Zerouh was the only bureaucrat here, he could have changed things, he recognized that he was the only one representing the wiki community and had to act. There was no full wiki, there was barely even a wiki still. Things are not in good shape, and I'm here to fix that.


 * I want to work with you, all of you, if you'll work with me. I'm here to stay, and I hope some of you are here to stay. However, if you're only briefly here to criticize actions that were not made for any terrible intent but simply to keep this wiki afloat, and have no vested interest here, then farewell. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 15:20, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * "Policy, we want to go by policy vut we are the most inactive people in this wiki!". Tell me this guys, do you really, really, really want to hold on to the power so much that your going to fight this down to the bitter end? I have tons of friends on this wiki contributing every day that thinks this should happen. I want to see this wiki have better mamangement under the Triumvirate. Lanclot Rice (talk) 17:20, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Guys, seriously... You have did almost nothing to be considered active admins. I have left message after message on MinigmeGod's talk pages about featuring my clan and he hasnt responded to mine, or anyones for that matter. This is a needed step forward to active and new leadership. Triumvirate obviously understands the process', and it is a highly good idea. Lanclot Rice (talk) 17:11, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * This account was created on September 12th, 2013. It states on the user page that it is designed to be used as a shared account which is in direct violation of the wikia terms of use. This account has made only 29 edits to this date, which can be found here. The claim that this wiki is inactive is easily countered by the fact that within 48 hours, 3 DIFFERENT admins have posted demanding the removal of this new accounts admin position. If a motion to make this person admin had been made, an appropriate time given to hear community opinion allowed, and the position granted I would not complain. Of course, I also would have said, "hell no" to the suggestion. Zerouh's last edit prior to September of 2013 was in February of 2012. That is over 18 months. I will report the abuse of the bureaucrat's abilities to wikia in approximately 19 hours. 19:56, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I for one completely support the Department of State here, I honestly can't believe it wasn't done sooner. This wiki is a mess, otherwise I wouldn't have had my pages deleted. Someones trying to do right and I don't think it's right to all get in a fight over this. TBH, the RS Clan Wiki has been terrible recently. No one deals with the issues and there isn't strong community at all. I'm going to trust someone with four years of experience with this community and with wiki knowledge who has the reasons and desire to clean it up. Nremni (talk) 19:59, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I am the only one using this account! Chief Ambassador Jackson Mearl. That's one person. I have been on this wiki for months, and the assets the Department of State have put into this wiki as well as the devotion towards watching it have been going on for years. This wiki is inactive. You only come on to say it's not inactive, that should be pure evidence of it being inactive. No featured clan in months, no serious management in months, no news, no significant publishing, terrible response to vandalism. I'm here to make this wiki shiny again. You want to work against me, be my guest, but I'm doing my best to make things work. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 20:04, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

You are a new account and should not be a bureaucrat. We are not inactive. Shame on you.Ytse (talk) 20:04, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Everybody take a breath. Here are the facts: this wiki was shown to have inactive management. I saw multiple times that vandalism reports and communications to admins went for days (or sometimes never) before being attended to. The Department of State is the only institution with the power, the resources, the knowledge, and the experience to help manage this wiki in its hour of need. What's my knowledge, how do I know that? Because I've been with this wiki for over four years, and I used to run the Department of State myself. I held a clan page on this wiki regularly until the wiki started to disintegrate into chaos and mismanagement. Don't revoke the account, if you do that, we send a message to everyone that this wiki doesn't have its stuff together and that we are more prone to disagree with each other than to work together to make the wiki stronger. Ehtya (talk) 20:11, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Triumvirate, you keep claiming to have been an editor with this wiki for months. Your account was created September 12th, 2013, per the top of the page. Are you an idiot or a liar?

Vandalism can be reverted by any user level in multiple way. Creation and cleaning of content can be done so as well. This account is 3 days old. It should not be sysop. Do something, then gain the extra abilities

Approximately 18 hours left. 20:19, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Don't call me an idiot or a liar ever, ever again. You got that?


 * I have been present on the wiki, not editing, but watching. The Department of State has kept an eye on this wiki for years, longer than any other. I am not claiming to have been an editor, but I've been active on this wiki longer than you have. We watch, we study, we catalog information. No one, I repeat that, no one, understands this wiki better than the Department of State.


 * This account is backed by the most politically stable institution with any relation to this wiki, it is run by a man with considerable wiki and foreign policy, as well as defense experience, and it happens to be the only thing that stands between your wiki and disaster. I am on your side, I am not standing against you. Stop with a countdown, because it won't do anything. The community is behind me here, as are clan governments, and my government. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 20:26, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm in agreement. The following clans agree with the Triumvirate Department of State and wish for me to list them here:


 * New Tyran Empire
 * Legendary Akatsuki
 * Al Kharid Sultanate
 * Great Armada
 * Fallen Pride.


 * Draziw, expect the community here to flip out and disband if you dont keep teh Triumvirate as this Bureaucrat. We are all tired of your lazyness, so please, give it up. Sincerely, Lanclot Rice (talk) 20:32, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

You are a new account and should not be a bureaucrat. We are not inactive. Shame on you.24.25.39.211 20:36, September 14, 2013 (UTC) Skills2Quest a i.

I support this new leadership

(Lord Agares)

Members and staff of the RS Clans wiki,

As a long time member of this wiki it has pained me to see it become so inactive and full of small time clan feuds and vandals. My clan began and grew on this wiki, I have shared over two years of my life with the members of this wiki, and I would like to say that there is no one better than the Universal Triumvirate to keep order where order has been lacking. Yes we all understand that the wiki has been quite inactive lately, however that is not an excuse for a lack of management. Even you Draziw have not been very active in the last 6 months, none of the staff has, but I am not blaming any of you for it. The wiki has been quiet, but that is something we hope to change, and when we do, we will need the assistance of the Triumvirate.

Draziw, I don't want to start a war over the fact that we just want to help. You know me, I only want what is best for the community, and the community wants someone to watch over them and make sure people aren't vandalizing their pages. As someone who you know had to deal with all that shit, you can't imagine how comforting and great it made me feel to be able to count on YOU to support me every time someone would make a stupid comment on my clan talk page or make stupid edits on my clan page. All I want is for other people to feel as welcome and comfortable I did on this wiki. I want people to be able to call this wiki their home as I had years ago. The Triumvirate has been a force for justice and peace for years and that’s all we want to do here.

We aren't asking you to hand over the wiki to us, we are asking to let us help you.

Please reconsider,

 20:49, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * @Triumvirate- So... by your own statement, you are admitting that you have not edited on this wiki prior to September 12th, which means that you are a new user/contributor. You claim to have been active on this wiki longer than me. The Universal Triumvirate was founded on September 15th, 2009... I started on this wiki May 28th, 2010... Now... I was in Soldier 1033's (a bureaucrat) clan (The Knights of the Abyss) when he joined this community back in November of 2008. So... talk a lot, but you're talk is empty. You say you aren't a liar and an idiot so I'll take you're word for it. But you're saying a lot of stuff that appears to be false... I understand this wiki better than you do. At least I know the terms of use and the wiki policies. Clan Quest (my political organization) is a Jagex Recognized Fansite, with over 200 members in game, and thousands of registered daily users on our website. We are a frequently featured clan, having been featured on Jagex's youtube channel, facebook, twitter, and the main page. We have publicly declared Jmods as members in our clan (ever watch runecast? Yay VodkaB!) and were one of the 5 clans granted Beta access to the Citadel and Clan chat updates prior to their release. This wiki isn't facing disaster. And if it is, you could do everything you wanted to do as a normal editor. You do not need sysop abilities. They should not have been given. The Bureaucrat who abused their abilities should correct their mistake. I can countdown as I like. Our policies are clear, and Wikia will back the administrators of this wiki up. Zerouh is in violation of our wiki's rules and will get what comes to him if he doesn't correct his mistake. If the triumvirate would like to create its own wiki to be monitored and made shiny, go right ahead! This is the Runescape Clans Wiki. Edit by our rules or be removed.

@Kingspencer- The issue here is that he does NOT need to be a Bureaucrat do do what you have suggested. And he has not shown himself to be capable or using the extra abilities, or even capable of making more than 100 edits to this wiki. I would rather you have bureaucrat ability than a new account made 48 hours ago.

About 17 hours left. 21:17, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * You haven't been active here, whereas the Department of State has consistently been actively watching this wiki here since 2009. It has excellent leadership, political stability, and requires extensive screening. Unlike anything on this wiki! It is the consensus of much of the population and community on this wiki that this management is needed, that we are needed here. There was no significantly active management, there was no one to confirm adminship even if it were proposed. If you were in my position, and you saw that there was this great site with great history, with no one taking care of it, and then when you try and do something, after getting community validation and validation from your own government, but then you were shot down by people who haven't even been around in months... how would you feel? The more we talk, the clearer it becomes that this wiki is in crisis and needs our help. If you want to work against me, against this wiki, you are to blame for what will come to it. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 21:25, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * You said, "There was no one to confirm adminship even if it were proposed." What do you call the three different admins who have Directly stated objections to your appointment within 48 hours of your promotion? I call those active administrators. If it had been proposed you would have been rejected. It was not proposed. Shame on you. 21:33, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Draziw, fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice? Shame on us. You havent been active here for months. Live up to the fact you havent did your job, and let someone else willing to do it step in. Seriously, are you that obsessed with power? Lanclot Rice (talk) 21:35, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Your last contributions were over eight months ago! You cannot say that anyone would reasonably consider you active. MinigameGod, also months ago. The Excel, over a month ago, and before that responses were scarce, very very scarce! You are only active here to stop me. Stop me from doing my job and helping out this wiki. I've tried to say I want to work with the management here, but there isn't management here, is there? There are petty admins fighting over management of a site that needs help. You had your time here, you clearly stopped being active for personal reasons, so why are you still clinging on? Justice, intelligence, and order is what this wiki needs — sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it? Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 21:41, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Draziw, fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice? Shame on us. You havent been active here for months. Live up to the fact you havent did your job, and let someone else willing to do it step in. Seriously, are you that obsessed with power? Lanclot Rice (talk) 21:35, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Lanclot, You've made 2 edits on clan pages, and a total of 13 edits since you joined the wiki, most of which are on user pages... What are you talking about? Even more ridiculous is the fact that Triumvirate has done almost the exact amount of contributing as you. Do you honestly believe that YOU should be an administrator? If yes... let's be serious. If no, why should Triumvirate. If in 6 months he has edited 500 times and is a centerpiece of the community, great! As it is now, he is BRAND NEW!!!!

This wiki doesn't need Justice, Intelligence or order. It needs contributors. You have not contributed ever.... 21:44, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

You are a new account and should not be a bureaucrat. We are not inactive. Shame on you. Lyzbth517 (talk) 21:42, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I am a contributor. Here I am! I'm also known as Caeser VI, who was active as H - E double L in the beginning. Why cant we just agree to let the Triumvirate manage this wikii and give you your life back? Lanclot Rice (talk) 21:48, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yes you have the ability to check in if someone happens to write on your talk page, but the constant support and wiki updating by the staff that was once here is gone and you can't argue against that. Allowing the Triumvirate to keep it's admin abilities allows them to not have to go through other staff to get things done around here.

I ask you again, to please reconsider.

21:49, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Really people? Creating new accounts just to literally copy and paste the same message? That's low. Don't trash Lanclot, he's a member of this community just like you are, don't treat him poorly for expressing his views, because that's not something that I will allow to stand. This wiki needs order more than ever, so I beg to differ with you there. I'll repeat what I've said and what has been repeated by others: The Department of State is the only group, only institution with the ability, the assets, the wiki experience, the defense experience, the extensive and strict selection and appointment process, the political stability, and the time and resources to manage this wiki reasonably. The Department of State is more familiar with the community than you are Draziw. You haven't checked on this wiki in months, you were presumed and declared inactive actually. Whereas the Department of State has been here consistently for the past year, since July of 2012 if I'm not mistaken, without flaw, and before that monitored this wiki for years. The edits made don't matter, we just received the authority to step in now, but that has no effect on who is right to manage here. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 21:50, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

So not only are people (Probably you Draziw, just saying...) creating accounts just to copy and paste the same message, without them ever having any edits and the SAME I.P ADDRESS AS YOU DRAZIW, you are now faltering in your argument. Congratulations, "Fool of yourself, you have made."

Dark Arc realied we were right, and he retired stating that we could handle it. Stop fighting for your own power, and give it up. We arent going to change the wiki's purpose, we are just here to manage it better than the inactives that do manage it. Draziw, we're giving you your life back, take it easy and go eat some cheetoh's on the couch or something. Lanclot Rice (talk) 22:03, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

P.S, Draziw, my cousin worked for Wikia. He said Zerouh has all rights in the world to what he didnt considering you have been deemed inactive and should have no say whatsoever in this process. Wikia vs. Wikia policy. Which one will win out...Lanclot Rice (talk) 22:03, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Lancelot, you deleted my post when you posted yours! That's great that your cousin said that without reviewing anything. I am right. ;) And people from my allied clans are making accounts to post. They are from different IP addresses, lol. "Obviously you won't follow this wiki's policies, I will take it up with Wikia directly if Zerouh doesn't resolve the issue within the next 17-16hours or so. You can do everything you want to make this wiki amazing without having bureaucrat access. I am not bureaucrat and I have over 30 times the contributions to this wiki that you have. If you are a normal account, I will support you actively until a proper nomination can be made within the policies of this wiki. As it is, you are ignoring the purpose and design of this community, and have displayed no honor, nor any intent to adhere to the standards this community has followed since it's founding. I don't care what your silly game government says, it is not the government of the Runescape Clan Wiki. You have ignored the government of the Runescape Clan Wiki, and are acting outside our laws (the community policies). This makes your promotion illegal, and all activities justified by that illegal act are neither a representation of justice, order, or basic reasonable behavior. I will wait the time for Zerouh to rectify his mistake, as he will loose sysop abilities when this is reported to Wikia, and I don't want to do that to him. Once this is reported, there will be no more debating, so...." 22:07, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Zerouh did nothing wrong, this was my doing. Zerouh saw inactivity in management and appointed the most logical choice to step in and clean things up. You have no more authority over me than I have over you, that's what you fail to understand here. I've asked multiple times to work with you, but you are obviously opposed to that, you clearly have no intentions of working peacefully here and will be obstructionist to anything or any purpose I have here. Zerouh was the only one around, he could do as he saw fit in a situation like this. Now I'm here, with community support, support from a bureaucrat, and support from my own government and I'm going to give it my all. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 22:08, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Zerouh hasn't been on this wiki since February of 2012 prior to this incident 2 days ago. Saying he was the only one around is nothing but a lie. Are you a liar sir? I am not opposed to you doing anything, I am saying you should not be sysop. If you have another account that has multiple edits and has existed for a while, I would be happy with it being syspo. This account is not and should not be sysop. It is not the most logical choice. Saying it is the most logical choice, when it was created the day it was sysoped is nothing but a lie. I am happy to see a new person interested in contributing. That new contributor should not be sysop. If you are sysop, everyone should be sysop? Why not just do that now? 22:12, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I defend the actions of the Triumvirate Department here, this wiki is crap and what's the worst that could happen by letting them do what they can to change that? Actually though, no one else is here doing any managing, what's the harm in letting someone who can be trusted and who has the abilities and experience actually do their part. Give things a chance people. 37.139.24.230 22:15, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Because not everybody has the experience, the time, and the assets put into this wiki. And certainly no one here has the political stability behind them to prevent any sort of takeover or objective editing. A new contributor should be sysoped if there is no one else there, if things are unattended to, and the new contributor is clearly the best option in terms of time, assets, resources, history, management, and experience. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 22:17, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * And I am saying that your two days of contribution are not a representation of anything you have listed. If you have another account that you have used to edit which should be sysoped that can fullfill that requirement, I will support the promotion, otherwise, this is silly. Let's just make everyone bureaucrats. ANY EDITOR can ensure objective editing. Make me a bureaucrat? Why should you be a bureaucrat and I am not? Seriously, I'll stop arguing. 22:23, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Is tihs really happening here? An inactive sysop arguing with the people without whom this wiki wouldn't even still be around? Get out of here Draziw. -Lexer43 188.186.41.243 22:26, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not inactive and i am arguing with a person who has only had an account here for 2 days. Thanks for your thoughts! 22:28, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * You're really asking someone to bureaucrat you in order to shut you up? That's the most blatant excuse for a power grab I've ever seen. Representation of political stability, experience, defense experience, editing experience, knowledge of this wiki? Test me out, I've already shown it to dozens before. Back down my friend, save face here. I wanted to work with you, not against anyone. You are definitely inactive, it's been months, over eight of them, since you last posted. Triumvirate Department of State (talk) 22:31, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no power. lol. Power grab??? I am asking why you, a new account, created 2 days ago, are a Bureaucrat, and I- a sysop, with a long history with this wiki, am not? Please give me 1 reason. And like you, I watch this wiki, but I haven't posted. It's less than 8 months, btw... ;) I have seen no editing experience represented, and that is the only thing that matters on this wiki!!!!!!!!! You don't even have a signature. I'm not going to back down, and wikia is going to support me, so I am giving you the chance to get what you want and save face. :)
 * Says the one who is getting comments left and right from multiple people saying for you to back down. Go get a life bro. Lanclot Rice (talk) 22:39, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I used to be a member of this wiki like three years ago, unfortunately I left the User:Zerouh page on my watchlist and got flooded with e-mail when this started. I'm going to have to agree with Spence, you've got no role to stop anything here Draziw, the State Department has the right ideas. -Btzkillerv

Agreed. The Triumvirate needs to step in here. I want to make a clan page here but I dont feel safe leaving it by itself without any active administration. Draziw, I'm sorry, but we all disagree with you. - Clans Queen


 * Now you want the wiki community to promote you because of all this? When you haven't been here in months Draziw. IMO the Triumvirate is wasting its time here, this wiki doesn't deserve their help if people like you are wondering around on it. I'll back the Department of State which has a renowned history of international knowledge and protection with a cause for actual justice and order over some jealous wiki sysops who haven't been here in months. -Gurtrue Beast 176.9.122.78 23:10, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * ^Agree completely. Who is the Major Executive now btw, anyone know? 37.187.23.71 23:24, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * The current Major Executive is Nathan Maine, a good man, he's in his second term right now. Thank you for your support. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  23:26, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I propose Excel be re-sysoped, unless he's left for good now, which he might have. That Draziw leave, because this is immature and not going anywhere. And that the Triumvirate account stick around as it is. I'm for progress here. 96.47.226.21 23:34, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lanclot Rice, you have never edited my talk page? Otherwise, Please keep this discussion on Triumvirate's and Zerouh's actions. Thank you for your inputs Spencer, Draz and the rest of the wiki community! It's nice to see everyone so active even if it is for such a reason. Triumvirate, you still have done nothing I have asked to prove yourself to keep your b'crat right, instead arguing and showing your blatant lack of policy knowledge. If you didn't yet figure, I am trying to help. I have contacted wikia and have requested that your rights be downgraded to admin. These should be more than sufficient for what you want to do on this wiki. If you do need b'crat rights for any reason you can contact myself in the future. I now look forward to the statement I asked you to give earlier on the reason why you should keep your admin rights. I agree with Spencer whereby you have potential to do good for this wiki, but breaking policies like this is a bad start. I also agree with Rice, you have not edited nearly enough to show your editing knowledge of this wiki. I'm sorry, but watching does not count. Also, please stop using inactiveness as a weapon to fight users with. All these users know that they have been inactive but if you did not notice, all these users have answered within 24hours to a talk page request. This discussion is about Zerouh and your actions, please draw the line there. I have yet to hear from Zerouh. Looking forward to both of your statements. Thanks again, 23:35, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * You're trying to speak to Zerouh on my talk page...? I don't speak for Zerouh, I don't know Zerouh. I trust the wiki staff will see that Zerouh bureaucrated me under good faith here, citing the inactivity of the management. The responses displayed on this page should be enough to show community support as well, with several considerable members of the community standing up for this. MinigameGod, you are not above me. You can't tell me what does or does not count. The wiki community may, and they have spoken. There is no management here. They wanted me to come in. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  23:43, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * MinigameGod, we need to activity here. Please, for the good of the wiki, let us prevail. We are active and are willing to uphold your job. Zerouh did it all with the best intent for this Wikia to survive, so please, understand that. The Wikia community wants new leadership. Do you know how much this would infuriate them if you denied their voices? By the people, for the people. They have spoken. Let them be heard. Lanclot Rice Universal Triumvirate.png 23:48, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Do not de-bureaucrat the Triumvirate Department of State account. Zerouh gave them bureaucrat powers for good reason. No one has been on this wiki, and as a part of this community I support this user stepping in here as they do have the priorities and the community approval I think is necessary. My clan is out if he's out. Inactive admins trying to stop this good action is such bunk, Zerouh (a bureaucrat) and the community believes this account deserves its chances here and is definitely the best candidate for bureaucrat 77.244.254.228 23:48, September 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * The Triumvirate Department of State is the institution that should be managing here, as a bureaucrat so that you have an active one condoned by a bureaucrat already. It's definitely the most credible, even out of some of the actual admins here. I wouldn't have left the wiki and had my clan page deleted if they were managing, I'm pretty s ure about that. Nremni (talk) 00:04, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, can you stop using your resources of people to oppress this discussion. Having people with next to no editing history, with next to no community involvement, with no knowledge of past and present agendas, yet being apart of the Triumvirate is just weird. Nevertheless, I take on board your opinions and if you read on it is obvious that I have already let you off half a dozen block-able offences.

If you read my first message it said I will be holding the discussion on both of your accounts on here. I am waiting for his response on this page as I have linked it to him.

What is your definition of considerable? Mine is 500+ edits, 2+ months old accounts - this shows they have contributed to the community and they have the knowledge to benefit the wiki. Both of which this account does not have. You have no knowledge of the policies of this wiki. There are people who still disagree with decisions and therefore I have taken all of these factors into account to ask for your demotion.

If you did know the policies, you would be required to be nominated, you would have to meet criteria, then for a discussion to be held, whereby majority rules... Zerouh skipped all of these, to which myself as a b'crat knowing and upholding the policies has to step in. Words mean nothing here - actions do. This is why I have held back from blocking Zerouh and yourself, this is why I have not asked for all your rights to be revoked, this is why I am not being a strict b'crat whereby I follow all procedures, okay?

If you are going to have other triumvirate users threaten me, then it will be to no prevail. I am listening to the voices Rice. I have heard both sides of the story. And with all this at hand you must see that I am being unbiased. But you have to understand that policy has been created by the people, for the community. So please do not give me a speech as how I am denying people's voices? Because this is offensive and untrue. I asked one simple thing and you have still not done that? I asked you for your statement as in the nomination process a statement has to be made by the nominee and nominator as to why they believe the user should be given rights. And no, I am not above you, but I am more respected as an editor and a b'crat of this wiki. So, I am asking you, as someone with more experience, to fulfil the requirements that policy requires where Zerouh has not. I am beginning to go from lighthearted to dead serious. People are being rude, unhelpful and obnoxious. Please just do as I asked so we can all move on, as this is just doing to poison the community. 00:22, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

When the Adminship was applied to Dept. Of State, you and Draziw were both considered by wikia policy "Retired & Inactive" making Dark Arc and Zerouh the only active ones for the past 2 days. When Zerouh made the appointment, it required a majority of the Admins to agree. You 2 were retired, so no point in asking you guys. Zerouh obviously made him the Admin, and Dark Arc realized this and backed down. I dont see why you guys are making this such a power struggle. It was clear cut. It was needed. AND the community agrees with us. If you're seriously going to deny this, you have lost about 15 Editors and killed this wikia effectively. I urge you to reconsider, as you are the Wikia's Bureaucrat, it would be unwise to kill your wiki. Lanclot Rice 00:32, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not insulting you in any way or manner. WE never asked triumvirate citiens to get involved, this was of own choice. If we asked them to get involved... man, you would have a ton of people. But anyhow, im going to argue that point.


 * These people aren't mine... Lanclot/Ceaser is. Nremni was a member of the Triumvirate a while back but has an RS clan, same with Ehtya. I don't know about the rest of them. People very clearly are not fond of any decisions you've made, especially without speaking to other bureaucrats or the community. You haven't been here in months, MinigameGod, the community demanded action, a bureaucrat (Zerouh) allowed it, and I have the resources, the experience, and the political stability behind me to allow me to help better than any before. I've laid out my case for why the Department of State is getting involved here. It is the best option. There aren't strong editors, isn't strong management, vandalism is unattended to or simply ignored, as are user's questions and community requests. I have years of experience in editing wikis and am knowledgeable in wikitext as well as html/css. I possess the defense and sociological knowledge, as well as the political knowledge required, and the Department of State has (and any resource, including a bureaucrat, members of this community, and this wiki's own history will confirm) been active in watching and aiding this wiki in the past. I have made my positions clear, that I want to work with the management, that I want to stop vandalism, ban abusers when necessary, and prevent frivolous edits. I am backed by the most politically secure union in this wiki's history, with a complicated election/appointment process displaying my own experience in that regard. I am not using Triumvirate members to threaten you, but those of them who are speaking (Lanclot) deserve to have their voice heard (especially considering Mr. Rice is an avid member of this community already and has been for some time!). You wanted to hear from the community, well you woke it up here today, and they've been fairly clear. They want action, they don't want this wiki to disintegrate, and they support that I was made a bureaucrat here. They support it because of my past experience, the resources behind me, and my own knowledge of wiki affairs as well as my intentions to clean things up and make this wiki work again.


 * Zerouh only skipped over them because it was evident no one was here. No sysop (buraeucrat or administrator for that matter) had made an edit in over a month, and many of them in many many months. Zerouh believed that because I demonstrated I was a qualified applicant, who had the wiki's best intentions in mind, with the skills and experience necessary. He believed that because the community voiced (and is making itself even louder now that this is being challenged) its support. And because I explained the situation. Zerouh of course had the right to do what he did, what was he to do, consult with people who hadn't been seen in months? Or trust his gut, trust the community, and trust the only people who were left on this wiki and appoint someone who was clearly an appropriate candidate to manage this wiki better than before. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  00:39, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Adminship should have been applied to the wiki community. A clan does not determine admin rights, let alone b'crat rights. Nobody has the power to "skip" over policies like Zerouh. I have already said I am happy for him to have admin rights. Where does it say in this policy there is a definition of inactiveness? If you look at the Admin page for this wiki it says I am active. Maybe not by recent edits, but I was never inactive, and I always respond to talk page when applicable. Dark Arc had his rights removed because he was following policy. Zerouh then removed his rights. He did not backdown, he was silenced. In my opinion, he is the greatest coder with wiki has seen. Please tell me what he needs b'crat status for that admin doesn't have. You are making a big deal out of simple policy that I am trying to uphold against a majority.
 * You fucking Triumvirate cumbags, get away from our wiki. You and your stupid edits are pieces of shit. MinigameGod Should Stay The Only Bureaucrat. 37.59.7.177 01:13, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but neither of you are avid editors in my opinion. Collectively you have made next to no community wiki contributions. Sure you have edited your own pages, and you have edited talk pages - but that does not count. But yes, he should've consulted the past admins - and if he did we would have likely to given you admin rights to help with the wiki, but not b'crat.
 * The thing I have yet to mention is the fact that there is no where on this wiki where you have contacted Zerouh for rights access. This obviously shows you have contact with him outside of RSCW. Such a decision needs to have evidence on this wiki to make such a decision.
 * I'll ask one final time: Provide a statement and stop complaining about my very justified request to demote your rights. As a b'crat you need to follow policy, and you have showed AT NO TIME that you have the diplomacy, level-mind, editing capabilities nor experience to be given such rights in the first place. These are my final opinions, I am not going to be arguing over your b'crat rights anymore. You have been given admin rights at the least, which is more than enough. If yourself or any other members want to continue discussion, I welcome, I will read, but I am going to wait for wikia's or Zerouh's response to the matter. Now, if you don't mind I want to finish my breakfast that I have attempted to eat 3 times now :p Thanks, 00:57, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * I already presented my case plenty of times, I even did it again in the last comment. Keep your dogs under control too, I'm not going to tolerate being cursed at and if this is the sort of people you keep company with, you shouldn't be letting them around here. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  01:16, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not know this IP do not make accusations like this in the future. For future reference please use our range of block templates to warn and to carry out blocks. Please do not refer to users as dogs in any light, as they may take offence. 01:27, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

I support the Triumvirate Department of State. They are the only non-corrupt ones around here, people like Draziw shouldn't be near our wiki. 96.47.226.21 20:44, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

The Test of Hypocrisy
Make me a bureaucrat and I will drop the issue. ;) lol 22:04, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

i completely support the Triumvirate-Beastytopdog

My Views
Alright, well this was done in a horrible fashion, and I still think it's disgusting. I would personally have removed Zerouh's Administrator rights in 2 seconds if I had the power, and I still stand by that. Some might look to my record, and notice that many times myself and Zerouh have had conflicting views, and this is not the first time I have lost my admin rights. However, over the past few months, I've gained high ranks in many open source projects, and I have operated my own servers, as well as grown as a person overall. My experience with admistraition has more than trippled. I will understand if my views are disregarded on the grounds of my record, but I will express them anyways -- mainly because they have been requested. I can honestly say without hesitation that Zerouh has violated this wiki's policies, and with knowledge of them. I do not take back my attempts to stop this, and I feel I was 100% in the right.

If other users are willing to step up to the plate and take care of any needed banning/blocking, then I would advise this user be demoted to rollback until more proof has been given. If no one is willing to step up to the plate, then I would advise this user be kept at admin status, and his behavior monitored to some extent over the coming months. That said, this user has lost points in my book as I've followed this discussion. I've watched people play hockey many times, that does not mean I'm a coach. I do understand what you are thinking though, when I took over Amanecer. I figured my observation, and involvement in lesser clans would be more than adequate, but it was anything but. Leadership, and the ability to execute it properly, is far more than observation, and note taking.

I understand there is much frustration from the community in regards to our -- myself, Draz, and Mini's -- lack of presence. But in many cases, complaints were never filed about any issue. As our lives have grown more complicated we -- or at least I -- cannot be watching over this wiki all the time. As I've stated, I didn't even get into this for management.

I must ask will all due respect though, that if this user's claims of wide spread issues are true, why has such little action been taken over the past two days. There has been more than enough time to at least begin to clean up this "observed mess."

So while I do see the points made by King Spencer about finding someone to take on the responsibilities of this wiki, I must advise caution when picking the correct person to take on this responsibility. I used to think someone was better than no one, but, if improper actions are taken, then often there are serious repercussions.

Also I must defend the actions of Draz, Lanclot Rice. He's not actually asking to become a B'Crat, he's merely showing the, if I may say so, stupidity of the situation. For those who do not know, Draz, before becoming an admin, did a fantastic job of keeping this wiki a clean. After gaining his admin rights, Draz also excelled with taking care of issues. Do not dispresect him, for he in many ways was -- and maybe still is -- the person you are looking for.

On the broad though, there has also been a lot of name calling here, I would like to remind everyone that while I'm not technically an Admin anymore, they should keep their tempers down... That behavior is not allowed whatsoever, and I'm sure Minigame, or Draz, would be more than happy to take appropriate actions if it continues.

I hope I've managed to contriube something of value to this conversation. I feel I do have expirence on both sides of the argument, and while I do not think this user has done anything wrong, I do think more time is needed to see the true character of this individual. Additionally, I do think actions need to be taken, especially in regards to Zerouh.

07:12, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Do not blame or persecute Zerouh, this was my idea entirely, not his. I take the full blame here, I pushed this. I would widely prefer that I leave completely than to tarnish his reputation in that regard, but I do still believe that Zerouh was completely justified in his actions due to total absence of any other sysops/bureaucrats and community consensus here. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  07:25, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I do see where you are coming from, but Zerouh has crossed the line. He promoted you to B'Crat status without ever having a public discussion, among other things. I know that the admins were not active, but the issue could have at least been properly brought up to the community. As I said on his talk page, there will -- and should -- be repercussions. Even if this was pressure 100% by you, that does not change the fact that he was the B'Crat that carried out this action against the policies of the wiki. 07:36, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * He did confer with the community though, perhaps not publicly as he should, I'll give you that, but the wiki community was in clear support (and many of them voiced it here today as well just to confirm that). Just do understand that Zerouh should not take the fall for what I pressured and pushed. I would so love for this all to work out and for everyone to just be happy and go back to normal, but I see that that probably won't happen because this got so complicated so quickly. With the inactive admins and community support, I'm sorry to say it, but I don't think Zerouh did anything wrong at all. He was the only bureaucrat/sysop around, saw the wiki in disrepair, and attained community support, I don't think many would have done differently than he was, he was acting in good faith and for what he deemed was best. Can't expect him to try and confirm his decisions with the inactive people, he had to work with the situation which was the community and himself, who were both in consensus on this. That's my two cents, either way, I would rather blame fall on me than him, this really was my push, I wanted to come in and help here and as the qualified applicant I pushed it. I do believe we can get past all this still, and I am still hoping that when this all fades away you and I can work on this wiki together hoping we don't have to drag everyone in here again. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  07:42, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

In Defense
I'll say my view again, because I speak for dozens, many of whom were generous enough to be vocal here today. The Department of State is the best institution for this wiki's future, I know that because I lead it for three years. I was active on this wiki for a very long time, my clan (Clan:EE) was a featured clan and everything. The wiki deteriorated completely though starting in about 2011, and many users started to leave entirely, how do I know this? Because I saw it happen myself. This wiki has slipped and it needs a hand getting up. The Triumvirate Department of State should be the one to help this wiki out, there is no reason to deny them that has any actual reasoning here. The community has expressed their view pretty strongly, even Caeser VI and Spence32296, the Department of State has massive files on this site, and is intimately familiar with its community, and it can be trusted over any other alternative due to strong backing from both a sturdy political system and government as well as backing from the community.

This is not a takeover, the wiki sysops were inactive, you've even admitted it yourself that you were all inactive, most of you for months. Zerouh made the most logical choice as the only active bureaucrat, he appointed someone who has wiki experience (you're welcome to test their editing knowledge), who had support from the community, and who could be trusted to actually do what was in this wiki's best interests. Per the policies, the active community here was consulted and this account was given support and made a bureaucrat. To attest to that, the active community here is still in support. To claim what Zerouh did, or what the Triumvirate Department of State is doing here is against policy, is against community approval, or against this wiki is simply false. I'm not a biased party here, I am looking at was is actually in the best interest of the wiki, a place that I spent a lot of time on until it started to go downhill.

I'm offended, and many people probably are too that your side would become so inflamed on this issue that they'd shoot profanities at those supporting the Triumvirate Department of State as a bureaucrat, they are trying to do the right thing here, they're not trying to hurt anyone. The Triumvirate Department of State, on seeing that some of the sysops here were still active has even asked to work with you, not against you, further attesting to the intention here. You have all returned to protest this new account, but you have no right to do so as you can't be expected a say if you don't show up to the meetings. If you haven't been on this wiki for months, haven't made an edit in months, it's not unfair to say that you are not a contributor here anymore. "90% of life is showing up", show up! If you all were active you'd have been doing something, would have been included in the conversation, and would have been prevented from this wiki reaching the sad state it is in.

I believe that after this is concluded, The Excel should be re-sysoped, I think to un-sysop him at the time was maybe a little harsh, though I saw he was reverting edits after Zerouh and the Triumvirate Department of State had asked him not to and to speak to them first over the conflict, so I recognize there are of course two sides. I also believe that MinigameGod and The.Draziw are being a little bit unreasonable, because both of them are only here, truly, as a matter of opportunity it seems to me. Neither of them had honestly made an edit on this wiki in over four months (in MinigameGod's case) or eight months (in The.Draziw's case). Honestly speaking here, you really don't have much say to make when you weren't here for the decisions or the wiki. The Triumvirate Department of State should remain a bureaucrat, uncontested. Excel should be re-sysoped, uncontested. Then the wiki can be back in its normal state, with an extra hand with the Department of State. Please, for the sake of the community, and for the sake of this wiki and its well-being, let's all come to peace here and work together to make this wiki stronger, and not get bogged down with petty fights. Ehtya (talk) 07:14, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your input. Citing the abruptness of the temporary removing of sysop powers from The Excel, and that I believe this wiki is better served with him, even if there is inactivity, I have re-sysoped him just as you and several others suggested. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  07:28, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Unrelated note
For everyone who is commenting on the lack of quality support, and admins. If anyone needs something fixed, just leave a note on my talk page. I've taken care of some minor issues, and policy avoidance. If there are any other issues please bring them to my attention. 08:26, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Excel 10:25, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion
I'd just like to thank everyone for their opinions. It's great to see that so many people care about this wiki over their own egos. I'm going to make this as brief as possible. I have read everything and this is what I have decided to put forward as the final say.


 * Zerouh, without which none of this would have happened, will keep his b'crat status. Triumvirate has told us he takes responsibility. He has abused his right and as such his edits will be monitored by myself over the coming months. Action will be swiftly taken if he breaks any further major policies like he has done with this event.
 * Triumvirate, I continue with my request to keep you at admin for the present time. Though many support your efforts, the 3 admins who have given their opinions, including myself, do not agree with your b'crat status. I hope I can talk on behalf of them when I say that we look forward to seeing your edits over the coming months. I feel admin rights give you all the freedom you need, and for any reason you need a b'crat to do anything you are welcome to come to the two active b'crats. I would still like to see the plans you have for this wiki so I can work with you. I also thank you for taking it upon yourself to give Excel his admin rights back, I'm glad you see the stupidity of what was done in that respect.
 * My Input: I have heard overwhelming evidence that this community wants to build this wiki up again, despite no one confronting any admin or b'crat openly in the past 10 months. I hope that this community has the heart enough not to blame anyone for the lack of activity on this wiki, as it is not a b'crat's nor admin's responsibility to keep a wiki active. That is a job for every community member. I have therefore asked Draz to help me start to build up the core maintenance of the wiki. I would love to see Excel, Triumvirate, Zerouh, the people-resources the UT, and any other community member give the love, care and time that this wiki needs. I will start a plan-of-attack asap to get this wiki up to standard. Saying this, if we begin putting tireless hours into rebuilding and receive no help or appreciation I cannot promise it'll continue. Time is precious, and this step is being taken because of the community's voice.

This wiki has hit a low, so there is no where left to go but up. Please do not flame, be rude or threaten anyone because of any of these actions. I think these are all very fair considering the circumstances. If you want the best for the wiki then you need to put differences aside to assist. I will leave this topic open for 48 hours to give people time to respond, suggest or offer opinions. At 48hours I will archive this talk page on behalf of Triumvirate. Thank you all again, 10:25, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Further Suggestions
Please place suggestions and comments to the rebuilding of the wiki here.
 * My suggestion for the rebuilding of the wiki? Firstly, please leave Triumvirate as a B'crat. If you dont, you saw how much support you would lose on this wiki. Seems the people arent really nice to Draziw at all anymore, and they think that you are too inactive to keep leading. Let me put it this way, They saw that you came back only to undermine Triumvirate. The people didnt like seeing that. The people want a new B'crat. It's ridiculous to try and hold onto power in a establishment where nobody thinks you are fit to lead. Sure you have Draziw and Excel that want you around, but those are 2 admins. I'm sure that if you deny Triumvirate the Bureaucratic status, around 15 people will pack up and leave this wiki. I'm not making threats here, I'm just telling you whats going to happen to your wiki if you dont listen to the people who run it.  Lanclot Rice Universal Triumvirate.png 17:56, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion. Assuming he retains his position, what would you propose be done to encourage wiki growth? At present there are 0 broken page, 0 broken redirects, or 0 deletion candidates, so there is no need for an admin to handle the work on this wiki. In fact, there is no need for a new admin, because there is nothing a normal editor could want to do at the moment that they would need to become an admin for... A standard user like yourself is capable of making needed edits to the files of the main page, mediawiki files, and any proposed community initiatives can be made via our forums- though you haven't ever used those. The question here is not about the pending promotion review, but suggestions for additional initiatives you all are claiming need to be done, but haven't actually said what they are. So... what would you like us admins to do? Because at present there is nothing for me to do that you CANNOT do, so I ask why you don't do it? :)[Lanclot][Triumvirate][Draz] 18:18, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Forum Page Block
I am placing protection on the forum topic currently being actively used. The protection on the page only affects users that are not logged in. Given that an individual can reset their IP via proxy and post multiple times without logging in, makes it 100% necessary to ensure anyone who would like to voice an opinion are required to log into a specific account to do so. I am going to re-institute that protection as it is within standard Wiki Policy, Runescape Clan Wiki policy, and is necessary to ensure productive community action. If anyone would like to voice an opinion regarding wiki business, they should not be concerned with logging into the account they would normal use to edit with. Please refrain from reverting that action and abusing your b'crat status. 19:23, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * No. No you are not. That is for the community to decide if they'd like to block the page off or to determine if any foul play is at work here. Do not attempt to prevent people from speaking freely there. On an issue such as this, every voice deserves to be heard. There is no evidence of foul play thus far, and I intend to keep this process completely open. Do not do it again, are we clear? Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  19:26, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have reported you to Wikia directly for violation of Universal Wikia Forum use policy, Runescape Clan Wiki Forum Use policy, and Bureaucrat ability abuse. Servicing of citation will be issued within 72 hours, if they don't respond to Minigame God's action prior. You sir have just given me the ammo to go to the very top. Before it was Zerouh who had out stepped their bounds, now you have too. Thanks! 19:37, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Man, at least sign your work... I dont think this violates any policy, as your corruption has been shown with bribery, flamming, and overall attitude of rudeness. I can only say that you should be the one who is reported, which I am highly inclined to doo as of now. 19:35, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * My apologies, I posted this on the previous page, and copy pasted. Feel free to report me all you like, I have done nothing wrong. It is signed :) 19:37, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * If my "violations and abuse" come from trying to make sure every voice is heard, when there has been no evidence of foul play, then I have no intention of apologizing. Every voice deserves to be heard, they're not hurting anything by commenting their views, they are simply representing how they feel and what they believe should happen. I'm sorry if you feel compelled against them because they don't support your arguments, but that's simply not fair to them to remove their views because they are against your own views. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  19:41, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I perfectly agree. They have to log in to an editor account to do so. That takes 4 seconds, or about 80 seconds to create an account. Anyone who is afraid to log into an account shouldn't be able to post on a community related issue. Allowing non-logged in editors to comment on a community posting is irregular. Institution of a login-block is standard, reversal is abuse of authority, and grounds for immediate demotion. An apology will do nothing. A return of the block will. If you want me to start proxy posting via indirect IP I can, but what does that do? Make them log into an account to post, very simple. Too late though, you've been reported so... Minigame God will return the lock when he wakes up, and you will again see your lack of knowledge in policy is not helping anything. 19:46, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * My lack of knowledge in policy? You do know that you banned both UNREGISTERED 'and NEW users from being able to post. So no, someone can't just take "80 seconds to create an account". If people have been watching this fight and have thoughts about this wiki, they should be allowed to be heard. I do not care where they come from. There is no evidence anyone is "proxy posting" or doing anything, and reporting me is childish. I'm trying to make sure everyone is heard, not to advocate one way or the other. Instead of throwing reports everywhere and trying to stop everything I do for bad reasons instead take a breath, stop overreacting to every little thing, and let's resolve this like civilized people, okay? Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  19:52, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Lol... Put the block up, make an account, and try to post on that article ;) You can. Why? Because this wiki doesn't have a new user designation that requires approval from administration prior to the user's being able to post. That is a feature used by wikis that have sensitive material being edited, or are commonly vandalized. There is no way to make a block that doesn't affect the new user designation, hence why the block was made as it is. This wiki doesn't use that designation, so it doesn't matter. You didn't know all this? so... Now that we've learned something, can we please put the block back up so people can take 80 seconds to do this right? 19:59, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Answer me this, Why Do You Care? Does it really hurt you that people are commenting as they please? Truthfully, what is it hurting? Disregard the comments made by non-accounts if you really want to (though I think that's absolutely wrong as I do believe anyone deserves to be heard), but does it really hurt anything to let them make their comments? What harm does it do to let them comment? Why can't people be entitled to make their opinions? If you're concerned by the fact that many of them are in support of a side you are clearly against, I'm sorry, but that's not proper reason for anything. Treat those commenting any way you want, ignore the comments that don't come from users if you really want to, but you do not, NOT get to remove their comments or prevent anyone who wishes to be heard from being heard. That is unacceptable. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  20:05, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * As I have said before, a person can reset their IP and post 100 times. I have not removed any comments, nor have I prevented anyone who wants to be heard. They simply need to log into an account, as is typical of EVERY ONLINE FORUM IN EXISTENCE. I have countered everyone of your responses with valid reasoning and the backing of wiki policy and logic. Please reinstate the block. 20:15, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Unless there is solid evidence of people resetting their IPs, which there has not been, I will not reinstate the block in any form. By your logic people could create a dozen wiki accounts and post with a dozen of them too. Without evidence of foul play, without any solid evidence, or without any good reason besides what looks like a misguided attempt to prevent people from speaking there, the page will remain open to the entire community as it should. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  20:18, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * YOU CANNOT BE THIS UNKNOWLEDGEABLE!!!! LOL. Wikia limits the number of accounts that can be created by a specific browser cookie, IP and Universal IP area within a fixed period of time. A person could NOT create mass accounts and post dozens of times... wow...really...? You're so blatantly unknowledgable it is embarrassing sir. I will wait until another b'crat returns, since you have threatened to abuse your ill-gotten authority if I act as I have suggest, which is consistent with both the internet community and the wiki community universally. 20:25, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * If someone switches their IP and CLEARS THEIR COOKIES, then they could theoretically make as many as they want. Call me stupid one more time, really, go for it, have a blast. I love being called stupid all day long, it's super fun for me. Keep it up! The page remains open to the community, because no harm can come from that, only more opinions, which is what this community and this issue needs, is a wide range of opinions. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  20:30, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please quote the above statements where I have called you stupid. I called you unknowledgeable, which is a condition that has not been disproved. Now I am saying you are a speaker of falsehood bound to submit libel at a whim. As stated above.... limitations are placed on accounts created by a specific browser cookie, IP and Universal IP area within a fixed period of time. This can only be changed by the internet provider, and cannot be altered via direct proxy. Sigh... 20:45, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * I guarantee someone could very easily get past any that and effectively create as many accounts as they pleased. It's the Internet, there's always a way, really. I don't appreciate being called stupid or unknowledgeable, as I'm not. I'm very aware of the impacts here and apparently understand the complexities of Internet traffic better than you. No harm is done by allowing community input. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  20:49, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * They aren't the community, they are undisclosed posters who haven't logged in to declare who they are. :) They could not do as you are suggesting without changing geographically located computers and internet providers. Again, you ignored me. I am shocked at your inability to read a simple request. Obviously you can write, so why can't you read? Please show me a single incident where I have called you stupid from above. 21:00, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, it was you yourself who rudely accused me of having knowledge of an IP address before. I thought this would be sensible to lock the page. How is there anyway which you can prove resetting IP's? Seriously? The IP address that have been used is a proxy server, at which case they could have 1000+ IPs at their disposal. It is better to prevent then it is to have to react and deal with users. No harm can come from it? Having swearing, rampage, nonsense and vandalism. I would prefer not to have to give warnings and blocks to half a dozen random proxy IP's. As this is a community issue, it should only have the opinions of established members of the wiki. I am happy to leave it unlocked but the page receives any misuse I will lock it immediately and I give permission for draz to step in as I have uni all this week. I will be checking everything in the morning and afternoon each day. I say again, please learn your policies otherwise it is a disgrace that you have these rights. Oh and I'm still looking forward to your statement about what you are planning to do on the wiki. I'd like that asap. Otherwise there is no use with you having admin rights if you're not going to do anything with them. Thanks, 21:02, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would just prefer if the people you associate with didn't curse me out, as it's really not appropriate in this setting or on this wiki. Innocent until proven guilty my friend, there is no evidence of any foul play in IPs, there is nothing indicating that someone is logging in or out, they are people coming to express their views. I already said to look the other way on them if you want, ignore them if you want (though I would not, as I don't believe in ignoring any view presented), but you cannot prevent people from speaking their mind and that's final. I have explained my purpose and my intentions here fully several times and have had to defend them dozens of times now, and frankly I'm getting sick of this constant berating for trying to do the right thing here. Inactive administrators have no right to tell me that I have failed a day into the job when they themselves weren't around for months. Get off of my back, stop harassing me, and let me do my job without a big blowup taking over this wiki. Thank you. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  21:09, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * You have yet to tell anyone here what you are planning to do in the "job"? Templates? Maintenance? Coding? Categories? Articles? Bots? Please tell me FOR WHAT SEEMS LIKE THE HUNDREDTH TIME so I can help and work around you. I don't think I can be much clearer? 21:37, September 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Creating templates, performing maintenance, anti-vandalism, banning/blocking, writing articles, providing a legitimate background, providing better security, better implementation of solid management, giving credibility, protecting pages that need protected, removing protection that pages that don't need protection, being the only unbiased party that is apparently present, updating pages that have been neglected, attending to user complaints and issues, and doing everything in my power to make sure this wiki does not go down the drain and can become a vibrant community once more. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  21:41, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * The common misconception is that we are here to make this a completely different wiki, we are not. W stepped in when maintanance was lacking, and we want to help you do it, but recognize this as a Triumvirate site. I think that might clear a few things up. 21:44, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

"recognize this as a Triumvirate site" ya... not happening ever... 00:00, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Such a pity. Oh well. 00:14, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

"recognize this as a Triumvirate site" ya... not happening ever... 00:00, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you misinterpreted that. He likely meant that you should recognize this a site with the Triumvirate backing, which is very important in this community. Your hostility towards a particular group is not appropriate at all though. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  00:16, September 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think you misinterpreted that. He likely meant that this wiki has the backing of every clan which uses it, and is a medium of interest for the global runescape clan community. Being a declared entity of any individual clan or union is contrary to the basic design of this wiki, and accusing a person of holding hostility to a group that is declaring itself the owners, which is what lanclot has done regardless of his intentions, is silliness. 00
 * 25, September 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Never, never, never, not once did I declare myself or did the Triumvirate declare itself the owner of this site. It is not appropriate to target and scoff at a specific group you disagree with. Being backed by an entity is better for the overall well being and security of this site, and it's desperately needed as the community has stated. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  00:31, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * You guys misinterpreted that to the max. I Meant that Triumvirate would be the B'Crat, therefore, Triumvirate basically updates and manages this site. Never once did I mean we would declare this all for one entity. You people read into my words to much. 00:36, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Archive & B'Crat
I've archived your talk page to remove this mess from view. You have been demoted to admin rights by Wikia staff. This may or may not change in the near future (it likely will not provided you follow the policies accordingly), however, for the time being you will be closely monitored to insure you are following the policies.

If you fail to follow the policies correctly, the entirety of your admin rights may and most likely will be terminated, or suspended in accordance with policy. 22:50, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Remain, Thin Line
You will remain as a sysop for the time being, as I do believe I was not misinformed in my original analysis of the situation and the original vouch of public support. However, you will not be returned to bureaucrat for the time being due to that being an over-action on my part and it's not needed at the moment. Your attitude, though provoked by many actions here, has been moderate and for that you are not being punished but you will be watched very carefully going forward and expected to maintain a moderate demeanor here without hostility in the future. You walk a thin line, as I am upset with the actions of many on this wiki as of the last few days, after reviewing the entire situation. Do not abuse my trust and do not, DO NOT, test it or push it. 15:54, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

Policy Changes
Hey could you please take a look at this. 20:24, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

Expectation
Hi Triumvirate - I was just wondering whether I should be expecting the same users who were vouching for your leadership to help with the re-building of the wiki? Or should I be asking them on their talk pages? Feel free to just respond here. Thanks, 12:56, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not up to me, it's more up to them. Expect Spencer/Lanclot to continue regular activity is my guess. Nremni, Crown, etc. perhaps as well. Triumvirate Department of State Universal Triumvirate.png  23:37, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Input
Can you please provide some input into Forum:Project Database Integration before we send anything to Jagex. Thanks, 05:23, September 22, 2013 (UTC)

Feedback
 '''Hi, Can I get you to have a look at this page and contribute your ideas to the suggestion made. Thank you,''' 20:51, August 15, 2011 (UTC)